Florida’s new voter-identification law leaves me … speechless.*
The new Florida [voter-identification] law requires that voter registration drives be conducted by third-party groups that are certified by the state and requires the groups to account for all forms that are checked out from the election division. Those rules are the centerpiece of a training effort this weekend by the Obama for America staff in the state.
— “Obama Campaign Confronts Voter ID Laws,” Michael D. Shear, New York Times, today
Wow. Is it just me, or is it hard for you, too, to imagine a clearer violation of the First Amendment? I’d never heard of this law before, and I don’t know how long ago it was passed and what stage the court challenge to it is at, but …. yikes.
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*POSTSCRIPT: Just imagine how quickly the Supreme Court would strike down as a First Amendment violation a similar requirement pertaining to petition drives to get candidates’ names on the ballot or to get a voter initiative (e.g., of the sort that the rightwing is so fond of) on the ballot.
You forget that with the current supreme court, they have found a supersecret clause written in 1787 is that if a law is good for Republicans, the 1%, or corporations, it is Constitutional. If it is a law that Justice Scalia or Justice Thomas does not like, it is unconstitutional.
When we moved to Michigan I had to provide ID and prove my citizenship, which was not aproblem becaause I am a citizen.
When I vote I have to provide ID and sign a form, takes about 10 seconds.
My First Amendment rights have not been violated.
Um, the First Amendment issue I was referring to is not the ID requirement, which depending on what the ID requirements are, may or may not violate other sections of the Constitution. The First Amendment issue with that particular statute is that it requires that voter registration drives be conducted by third-party groups that are certified by the state. That said, I might be misunderstanding what exactly the law says—I haven’t read the statute—but it still sure seems to me that the requirement that the state certify, and therefore be able to refuse to certify, the people who conduct voter-registration drives constitutes a First Amendment violation.
All you have to do to recognize this is to imagine how quickly the Supreme Court would strike as a First Amendment violation a similar requirement pertaining to petition drives to get candidates’ names on the ballot or to get a voter initiative (e.g., of the sort that the rightwing is so fond of) on the ballot.
But regarding the requirement that you produce identification in order to register—well, sure. But the question is, what qualifies as sufficient ID. Some states are requiring types of documents, such as birth certificates and photo IDs, that are hard for some people to get or get copies of. E.g., some immigrants re birth certificates; homebound disabled or very elderly people re photo IDs. In some circumstances, it takes more than about 10 seconds to produce these documents. First you have to get the documents or certified copies of them.
And as for what’s required in Michigan, best as I recall I did not have to produce proof of citizenship when I registered to vote.
The First Amendment issue I was referring to is not the ID requirement, which depending on what the ID requirements are, may or may not violate other sections of the Constitution. The First Amendment issue with that particular statute is that it requires that voter registration drives be conducted by third-party groups that are certified by the state. That said, I might be misunderstanding what exactly the law says—I haven’t read the statute—but it still sure seems to me that the requirement that the state certify, and therefore be able to refuse to certify, the people who conduct voter-registration drives constitutes a First Amendment violation.
All you have to do to recognize this is to imagine how quickly the Supreme Court would strike down as a First Amendment violation a similar requirement pertaining to petition drives to get candidates’ names on the ballot or to get a voter initiative (e.g., of the sort that the rightwing is so fond of) on the ballot.
But regarding the requirement that you produce identification in order to register—well, sure. But the question is, what qualifies as sufficient ID. Some states are requiring types of documents, such as birth certificates and photo IDs, that are hard for some people to get or get copies of. E.g., some immigrants re birth certificates; homebound disabled or very elderly people re photo IDs. In some circumstances, it takes more than about 10 seconds to produce these documents. First you have to get the documents or certified copies of them.
And as for what’s required in Michigan, best as I recall I did not have to produce proof of citizenship when I registered to vote.
Ah. You’re right. Seriously.
Bev:
You would be correct on what is needed to vote in Michigan. A driver’s license or a voter’s registration card with your address on it. Otherwise you have to sign an affidavit to vote.
Of course Florida at least has motor voter laws where you can register when you get a drivers license or ID card. (It is hard to see in todays world how one can get buy without at least an ID card).
Yup. That’s how I recall it. And when you get a drivers license or renew your license, they ask you if you’re registered to vote and, if not, whether you’d like to register.
There’s a big issue about what type of ID you need. Some states are now requiring only certain types of ID cards. For example, they’re disallowing college student ID cards. So if you’re a student and have a driver’s license from another state, but want to vote in the state where you’re living as a student, you can’t.
And as for states requiring valid a driver’s license or state photo ID, it’s a real problem for people in, say, nursing homes or who are homebound due to a disability. Also, I’m not sure what most states charge for photo IDs, but apparently in some states it’s enough to be a problem for some. Another problem is that in some places—rural places, mostly—these state offices are few and far between.
Yup. That’s how I recall it. And when you get a driver’s license or renew your license, they ask you if you’re registered to vote and, if not, whether you’d like to register.
This law is newish and still being litigated. It is on hold only in the Florida counties that are covered under Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. See here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/us/justice-department-calls-for-trial-in-florida-voting-dispute.html
The law has pretty much put a stop to third party registrations in Flotida. League of Women Voters pulled out. Other groups are just too scared of possible litigation to do any registration this year, so the law is working as intended: it is suppressing progressive voter registration efforts in an important swing state during an election year.
Thanks, BlogWood. The last paragraph of the NYT article suggests that a few groups may be planning to challenge the law on First Amendment grounds. It says:
“The Florida League of Women Voters, the Rock the Vote group that focuses on young people and the Florida Public Interest Research Group Education Fund say the election law infringes on their First Amendment rights of free speech and association.”
This would be separate from the Voting Rights Act case.
Thanks, BlogWood. The last paragraph of the NYT article suggests that a few groups may be planning to challenge the law on First Amendment grounds. It says:
“The Florida League of Women Voters, the Rock the Vote group that focuses on young people and the Florida Public Interest Research Group Education Fund say the election law infringes on their First Amendment rights of free speech and association.”
This would be separate from the Voting Rights Act case.
I always wonder why these “drives” are necessary, as there are plenty of opporunities to register throughout the year.
And I always wonder just how honest the registration cards are.
But how many folks in nursing homes had id’s at one time. I truly rural areas you do need a drivers license to get around. In Tx the fee for an ID card is $16 for 6 years or above age 62 for a id that needs no renewal. Now of course it always used to be that you voted at home if in college. I recall I did back then, just send for the absentee ballot. If your going to claim state residency you need to go the whole way and get a drivers license from that state. I do recall getting the bedsheet sized absentee ballots for 1972.(Also by keeping your ID and voter registration at home you can probably skip jury duty as well).
Note that if one is in a nursing home Texas says that if you have an ADA quality disability accomidations can be made, and I suspect being in a nursing home qualifies.
Here is a list of what ID’s florida accepts for voting.
Florida driver’s licenseFlorida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor VehiclesUnited States passportDebit or credit cardMilitary identificationStudent identificationRetirement center identificationNeighborhood association identificationPublic assistance identification.
Note that it includes student IDs as well as retirement center ID’ (I suspect that also would include nursing home IDs) as well as public assistance IDs.
This is a lot less restrictive than some states although the rejected Texas law did provide for a free voter only ID as well.
Devil meet Details–My sister, the lawyer, lives in FL and has all her life. She had to renew her DL this year at age 62. Because of the large number of traffic accidents involving old drivers, the process required her to have a vision test at the DMV. Fine. However, it also required her to present a certified copy of her BC and her marriage license (she changed her name at marriage 40 years ago and the “new” name had to be proved to be hers.) She went to Pinellas where she was married to get a new copy of her MCert. She then had to produce a form of ID other than her old DL. And, two pieces of documentation showing she lived at the address she claimed as her residence. And, surrender her old DL.
Whole deal took about two weeks and irritated the punk out of her. Now, imagine a poor person doing all that. The docs alone could cost up to $100.00. The Counties/States farm this out to a profit making company which does it all online and sends everything by Fed Ex ($30 up front on a credit or ATM card.) No money, no docs. No CC/ATM–no docs. No computer, car, bus or other transportation–no docs. No docs, no vote.
A lot of people have hospital BC’s and MC’s issued by the preacher/state official who married them. No good. You need state certified docs. Just as if you were applying for SS retirement or other federal benefits. Obviously, most voter registration efforts are volunteer and don’t have a lot of money to operate on. SSA will obtain docs for claimants who can’t afford them. Not so the states with these draconian laws. These laws are not intended to make voter fraud rare–it already is. They are intended to keep minority and poor people from voting, and does a fine job at it. NancyO
Beverly and Nancy
thank you for trying to educate those who think “state certified” voter registration is just fine.
rusty apparently lives in a nice middle class cocoon… and of course voter registration drives are clearly not important because all us citizens just naturally line up to vote when our country calls.
and that’s the way democracy died.
(btw in Oregon where I have lived and had a drivers license for 35 years suddenly decided i needed a birth certificate to prove who i was. it’s that picture of me on the birth certificate that is so conclusive, you see. okay, i grumbled.
and laughed and laughed when the State of Florida let me know it could expedite my birth certificate through a private corporation that might charge a fee for the service.
and laughed and laughed when the State of Florida let me know it could expedite my birth certificate through a private corporation that might charge a fee for the service.
It’s the conservative job creation plan put into action.
Yes, Lord! NancyO
People in this day and age get married without a marriage license, which is supposed to be returned by the officiant to the county? Of course they are not married.
The Florida requirement was done by the real ID act. Now as a layer she should have had a passport which always works for ID and is indeed the best kind of ID. Everyone in Florida is required to do this verification So it is another gift from the folks at homeland security. This is all the more reason to get a either a passport book or a passport card.
Note that in addition in many states you need a birth certificate to apply for welfare, food stamps, medicaid and the like as proof of citizenship.
Beverly,
In most states, out-of-state college students are not residents of the state they are attending college at and cannot vote there. they vote at the state of legal residence – usually were there parents live. This is probably state specific, but is probably true in most cases. Way back when I left Ohio for college in Colrado I voted in Ohio all 4 years absentee. I could not vote in Colorado (never could acquire resedency). Now my son is going to school in Oklahoma but just got his voter ID to vote in Texas. Even if he goes full time to college (i.e all year including summers) he cannot get OK residency. My brother/sister-in-laws kids go to college in NY and Kansas but have to vote in TX since they can’t meet residency requirements.
All anedotal I know, but states have pretty well tightened up on residency requirements for college, mostly so they can charge out-of-state tuition.
Military votes are even stranger since you can declare any state you have been stationed in as your legal residency and keep it there untill you leave the service. I was in the AF for 20 years and voted in every election as a Texas resident (except in 1986 were I was still voting from Ohio. This was a big issue down on the Rio Grande around Laughlin AFB since there were more military absentte voters elegible than actual residents of the area. (Laughlin is a Pilot training base so people go through at a high rate). Texas and Florida are favorites of military voters since they have no state income tax (there are other states like this also). That’s why Democrats attempts to suppress military votes is worth their time in Florida.
Islam will change
Blogwood,
Would’t the legislation suppress all 3rd part voter registrations? Or does it specifically use wording that says it only applies to ‘progressive’ (i.e statist) groups?
And if they are litigating it they must not be too worried about lawsuits…
Islam will change
Rusty:
You still have to appear in person in order to register and today you must provide a paycheck stub, or similar type of bill, with name and address on it if you do not have a picture ID. When you go to vote, they require a picture ID with your name and address on it. If such can not be provided, you are required to sign an affidavit.
Enlisting does not require such hoopla and these methods I am confident cover most people leaving only a very small percentage left. There was more of an issue with dangling punch holes in 2000.
Welcome to Real ID, the gift of our Homeland security folks, that is why the Birth Certificate was needed. Of course if you had a passport it would have done as well. But since it appears that even to get Welfare you need a birth certificate now, it makes sense to be sure you have one. All the more reason to join the 25% of Americans who have a passport, it is by far the best id. Of course you need the birth certificate to get it.
Let me add that eventually everyone is going to need at least the birth certificate to renew a drivers license courtesy of the US congress and the 9/11 commission.
I’m not sure about this, but I think you don’t have to be a citizen to apply for welfare benefits, food stamps, Medicaid, schips (children’s Medicaid), or housing assistance. I think you just have to be a legal resident. I think this is set by federal law, as these programs are funded largely by the federal government. Again, though, I’m not sure.
A few stats:
– 11 percent of American citizens don’t possess a government-issued photo ID (of over 21 million citizens)
– 3 of the photo ID bills to have passed expressly do not allow students to use photo IDs issued by state schools to vote. Wisconsin’s bill excludes most student IDs as well.
– 3 million Americans tried to vote in 2008 but couldn’t, due to voter registration problems.
– 25 percent of African-Americans do not possess a current and valid form of government photo ID, compared to 11 percent of all races.
and comments:
–
“the equal protection clause does not require identical treatment of all persons in all respects, it does require that a state provide adequate justification for treating one group of persons differently than another. However, since the right to vote is a fundamental right’ which the Supreme Court is “zealous to protect,” a state must show a “compelling” and not merely “rational” justification for a voting restriction.” http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1203&context=ulj&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dstates%2520which%2520do%2520not%2520allow%2520out%2520of%2520state%2520students%2520to%2520vote%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D11%26ved%3D0CCMQFjAAOAo%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fir.lawnet.fordham.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1203%2526context%253Dulj%26ei%3DnFSgT6C8C4jZgQeCncyiDg%26usg%3DAFQjCNGz63NjL6ujo_j5h04eL8jum1gj-Q#search=%22states%20which%20do%20not%20allow%20out%20state%20students%20vote%22
seriously? you are perfectly content to have the second ammendment “violated” in innumerable state statutes that constitute roadblocks to gun ownership including exhaustive background checks, but you think it’s too much to ask for someone to prove they are American before participating in an American election? you are truly self serving. wait until the opposition party uses your own rules and logic against you.
yay!! Americans vote in America!
we all know your disingenuous efforts to “protect” the first ammendment is thinly veiled efforts to get your boy reelected. if you really cared about the constitution you would care about all the constitution, not just the parts that fill your need. How about the 10th ammendment, or the 2nd ammendment. you probably don’t want to discuss enumerated powers or states rights do you? Shame on you, you sell out your county for personal gain, your just as bad as the ones you complain about! Either support the constitution or don’t.
Lyle–You don’t necessarily need a marriage license. You need a recorded record of marriage, and they are not the same thing at all. The details matter. For example, in California, the state recognizes the authority of certain public officials to conduct marriage ceremonies and certify that the marriage took place. But, the people who marry do so by their own authority and the state merely records the event. Other states do it differently. The details matter. NancyO
Beverly– Yes, federal rules apply. Citizenship or lawful admission to the US required. Lawful admission comes in many forms, so it’s not always so easy to determine. Many states and local government public assistance agencies used to be pretty lax in verifying eligibility for federally funded benefits. This is because few state and local govt employees know much about the docs they’re receiving. My experience was they’d accept just about anything. But, I retired long enough ago that the situation may have changed.
For one thing, state budgets are busted, thus there is a strong motive to deny claims requiring state funding in addition to federal funding. This situation makes it just as likely that people are incorrectly denied benefits as not so it’s hard to say whether the states are doing it right. SSA does it right based on 76 years of experience and staff training. NancyO
Ah, come on, Doug! The incumbent President has to get himself re-elected. The right to vote is an individual right and doesn’t accrue to a political candidate. I certainly support the Constitution in its whole. Second Amendment is cool with me. So, don’t forget that the right to vote is only generally described in the 14th amendment and the popular vote in all federal elections wasn’t even invented when it passed and every state has its own eligibility requirements over and above the federal ones. The wiki article link here fills in the other blanks. As for the 10th Amendment, don’t get me started. Just don’t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
NancyO
Lyle–The States have begged off. It’ll be a while before DL apps and supporting docs are consistent with the new federal uniform DL regs. SSA can’t do the work involved anyhow. No money. So, I think Congress is happy with non-implementation of the Real ID law. Sounds good and that’s a far as anyone wants to go. NancyO
On this I just checked Tx requires proof of the right to residence to get or renew a DL. Once you say illegals can’t get a DL then the requirement holds. So the answer is if one does not have ones birth certificate get a copy of it. If you do it on a non emergency basis it costs in the 10 to 20 dollar range.
Doug
don’t be so sure about disingenuous. There are five to four decisions from the Supreme Court because even learned justices disagree about what the Constitution means. If you insist that it can’t possibly mean anything but what you want it to mean, you have already lost the argument.
As for “states rights”, that has been used as the rationalization for lynching negros so long it has ceased to mean anything else.
Sorry you are speechless but glad you can still type. Keep up the good fight for freedom of speech, democracy and apple pie (ok the Republicans haven’t come out against apple pie, but at this rate I expect that they will any day now).
I guess most of you haven’t done voter registration, so you don’t know why this is intended to make life very difficult for those who do it. In California we have post card registration, so we always get a lot more forms than we need. People fill them out improperly and have to start over, people pick up forms to fill out and mail themselves, or they take forms for relatives or friends. And when you have vounteers doing the registration, blank forms get dumped in the garbage at the end of the registration drive. Luckily, California doesn’t want to make it difficult for people to register voters.
Voter identification information is very vital data for Florida public records, because this information used in many government or official documentation, so the registration centre is present all the time for public.
No matter if some one searches for his essential thing, so he/she desires to be available that in detail, therefore that thing is maintained over
here.